The charger for 75~78mm 21700 battery ?

Dieses Thema im Forum "Ladegeräte" wurde erstellt von Dlyfull, 9. August 2019.

  1. Hallo the TLF friend,

    We are consider to open a new charger for the special ultra longer battery -- 75~78mm 21700 battery, anyone can give us your ideas ?

    Here is my question as below:

    1) which brand and model for flashlight will use such longer length ?
    Your answers:

    2) how many batteries in the torch usually?
    Your answers:

    3) how many charge bays do you like for this charger ? Single bays or Double bays or four bays ?
    Your answers:

    4) What is the price level will you accept ?
    Your answers:
    for single bay charger
    for double bays charger
    for four bays charger

    5) What is the charge current will you like ?
    500mA~1000mA
    1000mA~1500mA
    2000mA
    3000mA

    6) What other function will you need ?



    Thanks and best regards,

    Jeff
     
  2. Folomov
    Hi Jeff,

    1) which brand and model for flashlight will use such longer length ?
    Your answers: Acebeam L30 II e.g.

    2) how many batteries in the torch usually?
    Your answers: -1-

    3) how many charge bays do you like for this charger ? Single bays or Double bays or four bays ?
    Your answers: Double or even single.

    4) What is the price level will you accept ?
    Your answers:
    20 for single bay charger
    25for double bays charger
    for four bays charger

    5) What is the charge current will you like ?
    x 500mA~1000mA
    x 1000mA~1500mA
    2000mA
    3000mA

    6) What other function will you need ?
    Indication of amount of energy loaded.

    Greetz, Gerd
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  3. re 1) personally I don't need any 'long' 21700 battery
    re 2) this question makes no sense at all related to a charger
    re 3) I would like to have the choice of all charge slots, be it 1, 2, or 4
    re 4) up to €50 if 5) and 6) is valid:
    re 5) 100mA up to any max mA, provided in can choose in reasonable steps
    re 6)
    a) I would like to determine the cut off voltage individually, not only 4.2V or LiFePo4
    b) Discharge funktion, also with individual cut off voltages
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  4. Acebeam
    @Dlyfull
    Hi Jeff, please find below my suggestions:

    1) which brand and model for flashlight will use such longer length ?

    Your answers:

    Acebeam T27/H30/EC65/L30 Gen II
    Amutorch New VG10 red
    Fireflies E01
    Fireflies E07
    Rofis MR30 (77mm with protected LG M50!)
    Sofirn C8F/C8G/SD05
    Zebralight SC700d


    2) how many batteries in the torch usually?
    Your answers:

    Usually one (21700 size) but about 30% with up to 4 batteries per light.


    3) how many charge bays do you like for this charger ? Single bays or Double bays or four bays ?
    Your answers:

    Depending on complexity and features, two or better four bays would be great.

    4) What is the price level will you accept ?
    Your answers:
    10 for single bay charger
    20 for double bays charger
    30 for four bays charger

    5) What is the charge current will you like ?

    4x 50mA for small cells like 10180
    4x 500mA~1000mA
    4x 1000mA~1500mA
    4x 2000mA
    2-4x 3000mA for 21700/26650 cells


    6) What other function will you need ?
    • No automatic (re)start of charging once the charger is powered
    • Freely selectable termination voltage (3.5V - 4.35V in 0.05V steps)
    • Freely selectable charge rate (50mA - 3.000mA in 50mA steps, at 500mA in 500mA steps)
    • LiFePO support (3.2V cells)
    • Discharge function
    • USB-C PD and QC 3.0/4.0 support
    • Active cooling
    • Temperature monitoring and automatic charge rate adaption i.a.w. temperature
    • Internal resistance measurement
    You might be interested into this thread on BLF: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67945
    They are seeking out for a supplier to develop the ultimate BLF charger. But I see you are probably in contact with them already?
    http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1536540#comment-1536540

    Cheers,
    Thomas
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  5. Alle meine 21700er (Lishen und Samsung) sind unprotected und maximal 71mm lang. Hier ist nach extralangen mit 75 bis 78 mm gefragt. Verwendet ihr tatsächlich in all den genannten Lampen lange (protected) Akkus? Oder gibt es auch extralange unprotected?

    Google übersetzt:
    All my 21700s (Lishen and Samsung) are unprotected and up to 71mm long. The demand was for extra-long ones with 75 to 78 mm. Do you actually use long (protected) batteries in all of these lamps? Or is there also extra-long unprotected?
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  6. Even if they would exist, why the hell should I buy them?
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  7. Skilhunt Taschenlampen
    Standard 21700 cells have more or less the same length. The protection circuit on top of the positive terminal is the part that adds length to the battery. So, if you want to use protected 21700 batteries you probably end up with batteries of 75mm and longer.
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  8. Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  9. Hallo Gerd, thanks very much.

    Best regards,

    Jeff
     
  10. Gab's da nicht das Problem mit eingedrückten ungeschützten Akkus?

    IIRC E07 had problems with dented unprotected batteries.
     
    #10 stefle, 13. August 2019 um 07:15 Uhr
    Zuletzt bearbeitet: 13. August 2019 um 07:30 Uhr
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  11. Selectable termination voltage would be a selling point.

    Displaying actual charging current (or better: option to skip CV charging) would be fine.
     
    #11 stefle, 13. August 2019 um 07:50 Uhr
    Zuletzt bearbeitet: 13. August 2019 um 07:57 Uhr
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  12. Das stimmt. Die E07 kommt nur mit ungeschützten Standard-21700 zurecht. Die Dellen im Pluspol kamen zum einen von zu langen Akkus bzw. ein zu kurzes Akkurohr aber auch von überschüssigen Lotrückständen vom werkseitigen Brücken der Treiberfeder.
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  13. There are so many low budget chargers, why add a further one?
     
    matjeshering und Dlyfull haben sich hierfür bedankt.
  14. When adding some uncommon configuration features, we should think of UI and number of buttons / touch screen.
     
    #14 stefle, 13. August 2019 um 08:21 Uhr
    Zuletzt bearbeitet: 13. August 2019 um 08:32 Uhr
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  15. Olight Shop
    Maybe I got you wrong but are you sure I am the right person to direct this question to? The features I have mentioned in post #4 will not impose significant costs except for USB-C / USB PD. All it takes is to implement these specifications in the right manner.
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  16. Active cooling?
    Additional Buttons?
    Testing efforts?
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  17. Active cooling is cheap, see costs for Miboxer C2-4000. Additional buttons - we are talking about one more button, maybe 20 cent higher costs. Additional testing efforts are negligible and can be resolved by prototype testing of experienced BLF/TLF members, see BLF thread stated above.

    So far so good in terms of my point of view. I think there’s enough room for more opinions here. ;)
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  18. To cut a long story short:

    Functionality: at least like skyrc mc3000
    Build quality: significantly better than skyrc mc3000
    Slots: longer than skyrc mc3000

    If this comes true, then skyrc mc3000 is dead
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  19. You didn't mention price.
    A charger that is even better than the MC3000 won't be cheaper.
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  20. Personally i would pay twice the price of an mc3000 for a perfect mc3000...
     
    Dlyfull hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  21. I thought this thread is about a MC3000-like charger with considerably reduced functionality.
     
  22. Where did @Dlyfull say that?
     
  23. Where did @Dlyfull say that?
     
  24. Okay, misunderstood your posting.
    You didn't want to sum up this thread.
     
  25. We just get the information from our flashlight users friends, so we need to make the detailed marketing research before open a new charger.
    Best regards,

    Jeff
     
  26. :)if you need them, you will buy it. You will no need to buy them if you no need for them. the most important is base on your flashlight demand.
     
  27. Maybe someone will ask, why should I add a long protective pcb to my battery?
     
  28. the charger you linked is our great new charger, but they only can charge the longest cell is 73mm.
     
    placebo hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  29. We usually do the selectable charge current, no company do the selectable termination voltage, so it is really good idea.
     
    Unheard hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  30. maybe the forum can have it for free?

    :hinter:
     
  31. @stefle , you looks so professional for battery charger. You are right. the UI, buttons and touch screen will need to be considered if we add some function. Of couse, the price will be very higher finally.
     
  32. Skyrc MC3000 does. I would not buy any new charger without this feature. Some people don't want to fully charge or only charge up to 3.6xV (LiFePo4)
     
  33. The Skyrc3000 is a very complex charger with sophisticated testing capabilities. More suitable for enthusiasts or engineers. Too expensive, not suitable for ordinary consumers.
     
    matjeshering hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  34. :thumbup: thanks very much , you share with me such important information.
     
  35. @Dlyfull
    Since you are experienced with NiMH chargers, can you say something about charging with pulsing current?

    This is HJK from lygte-info.dk:
    Real world -dv/dt chargers uses pulsing current when charging, probably because there is less noise in the voltage measurement with the charge current off.
    [...]
    The reason chargers measures with current off is probably due to noise, the signal may be less, but with current turned off the noise is also reduced.
    (https://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryChargingNiMH UK.html)

    Is he right about the noise problem? Constant current seems to yield a better termination signal.
     
  36. I'd like an acoustical alert when job is done. Unfortunately this requires additional components.
     
  37. There may be a another use case for a discharge function (beyond battery testing): You have fully charged batteries you don't need anymore. To get storage charge a very slow discharge function would be sufficient.
     
  38. Wenn man mit fließendem Strom die Zellenspannung misst, hat man die Übergangswiderstände mit drin. Die schwanken während des Ladens teils erheblich, weil sich die Zelle erwärmt und ausdehnt. Das ist gemeint mit "Noise". Deswegen misst man stromlos.
    Bei Li-Ion spielt das kaum eine Rolle weil der Ladestrom gegen Ende viel geringer ist.
     
    stefle hat sich hierfür bedankt.
  39. Wie hat HJK das gelöst? Bessere Kontaktierung der Akkus während des Ladens?
     
  40. Ja. Stromzuleitung und Spannungsmessung laufen über separate Kontakte. Ohne solche Halterungen kommt bei Akkutests nichts reproduzierbares raus.
     
    stefle hat sich hierfür bedankt.
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