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The charger for 75~78mm 21700 battery ?

Dlyfull

Hersteller
21 Juni 2019
88
50
18
Shenzhen
www.dlyfull.com
Hallo the TLF friend,

We are consider to open a new charger for the special ultra longer battery -- 75~78mm 21700 battery, anyone can give us your ideas ?

Here is my question as below:

1) which brand and model for flashlight will use such longer length ?
Your answers:

2) how many batteries in the torch usually?
Your answers:

3) how many charge bays do you like for this charger ? Single bays or Double bays or four bays ?
Your answers:

4) What is the price level will you accept ?
Your answers:
for single bay charger
for double bays charger
for four bays charger

5) What is the charge current will you like ?
500mA~1000mA
1000mA~1500mA
2000mA
3000mA

6) What other function will you need ?



Thanks and best regards,

Jeff
 

autobraker

Flashaholic*
4 August 2017
329
152
43
Hi Jeff,

1) which brand and model for flashlight will use such longer length ?
Your answers: Acebeam L30 II e.g.

2) how many batteries in the torch usually?
Your answers: -1-

3) how many charge bays do you like for this charger ? Single bays or Double bays or four bays ?
Your answers: Double or even single.

4) What is the price level will you accept ?
Your answers:
20 for single bay charger
25for double bays charger
for four bays charger

5) What is the charge current will you like ?
x 500mA~1000mA
x 1000mA~1500mA
2000mA
3000mA

6) What other function will you need ?
Indication of amount of energy loaded.

Greetz, Gerd
 
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kirschm

Flashaholic***
13 April 2017
5.393
2.607
113
1) which brand and model for flashlight will use such longer length ?
Your answers:
2) how many batteries in the torch usually?
Your answers:
3) how many charge bays do you like for this charger ? Single bays or Double bays or four bays ?
Your answers:
4) What is the price level will you accept ?
Your answers:
for single bay charger
for double bays charger
for four bays charger
5) What is the charge current will you like ?
6) What other function will you need ?

re 1) personally I don't need any 'long' 21700 battery
re 2) this question makes no sense at all related to a charger
re 3) I would like to have the choice of all charge slots, be it 1, 2, or 4
re 4) up to €50 if 5) and 6) is valid:
re 5) 100mA up to any max mA, provided in can choose in reasonable steps
re 6)
a) I would like to determine the cut off voltage individually, not only 4.2V or LiFePo4
b) Discharge funktion, also with individual cut off voltages
 
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Lux-Perpetua

Flashaholic**
19 Januar 2018
2.822
4.506
113
@Dlyfull
Hi Jeff, please find below my suggestions:

1) which brand and model for flashlight will use such longer length ?

Your answers:

Acebeam T27/H30/EC65/L30 Gen II
Amutorch New VG10 red
Fireflies E01
Fireflies E07
Rofis MR30 (77mm with protected LG M50!)
Sofirn C8F/C8G/SD05
Zebralight SC700d


2) how many batteries in the torch usually?
Your answers:

Usually one (21700 size) but about 30% with up to 4 batteries per light.


3) how many charge bays do you like for this charger ? Single bays or Double bays or four bays ?
Your answers:

Depending on complexity and features, two or better four bays would be great.

4) What is the price level will you accept ?
Your answers:
10 for single bay charger
20 for double bays charger
30 for four bays charger

5) What is the charge current will you like ?

4x 50mA for small cells like 10180
4x 500mA~1000mA
4x 1000mA~1500mA
4x 2000mA
2-4x 3000mA for 21700/26650 cells


6) What other function will you need ?
  • No automatic (re)start of charging once the charger is powered
  • Freely selectable termination voltage (3.5V - 4.35V in 0.05V steps)
  • Freely selectable charge rate (50mA - 3.000mA in 50mA steps, at 500mA in 500mA steps)
  • LiFePO support (3.2V cells)
  • Discharge function
  • USB-C PD and QC 3.0/4.0 support
  • Active cooling
  • Temperature monitoring and automatic charge rate adaption i.a.w. temperature
  • Internal resistance measurement
You might be interested into this thread on BLF: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67945
They are seeking out for a supplier to develop the ultimate BLF charger. But I see you are probably in contact with them already?
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1536540#comment-1536540

Cheers,
Thomas
 
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Tiberius

Flashaholic*
26 März 2019
691
642
93
Erfurt
Alle meine 21700er (Lishen und Samsung) sind unprotected und maximal 71mm lang. Hier ist nach extralangen mit 75 bis 78 mm gefragt. Verwendet ihr tatsächlich in all den genannten Lampen lange (protected) Akkus? Oder gibt es auch extralange unprotected?

Google übersetzt:
All my 21700s (Lishen and Samsung) are unprotected and up to 71mm long. The demand was for extra-long ones with 75 to 78 mm. Do you actually use long (protected) batteries in all of these lamps? Or is there also extra-long unprotected?
 
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Lux-Perpetua

Flashaholic**
19 Januar 2018
2.822
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Standard 21700 cells have more or less the same length. The protection circuit on top of the positive terminal is the part that adds length to the battery. So, if you want to use protected 21700 batteries you probably end up with batteries of 75mm and longer.
 
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Dlyfull

Hersteller
21 Juni 2019
88
50
18
Shenzhen
www.dlyfull.com
Hi Jeff,

1) which brand and model for flashlight will use such longer length ?
Your answers: Acebeam L30 II e.g.

2) how many batteries in the torch usually?
Your answers: -1-

3) how many charge bays do you like for this charger ? Single bays or Double bays or four bays ?
Your answers: Double or even single.

4) What is the price level will you accept ?
Your answers:
20 for single bay charger
25for double bays charger
for four bays charger

5) What is the charge current will you like ?
x 500mA~1000mA
x 1000mA~1500mA
2000mA
3000mA

6) What other function will you need ?
Indication of amount of energy loaded.

Greetz, Gerd
Hallo Gerd, thanks very much.

Best regards,

Jeff
 

Lux-Perpetua

Flashaholic**
19 Januar 2018
2.822
4.506
113
Gab's da nicht das Problem mit eingedrückten ungeschützten Akkus?
IIRC E07 had problems with dented unprotected batteries.

Das stimmt. Die E07 kommt nur mit ungeschützten Standard-21700 zurecht. Die Dellen im Pluspol kamen zum einen von zu langen Akkus bzw. ein zu kurzes Akkurohr aber auch von überschüssigen Lotrückständen vom werkseitigen Brücken der Treiberfeder.
 
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Lux-Perpetua

Flashaholic**
19 Januar 2018
2.822
4.506
113
There are so many low budget chargers, why add a further one?
Maybe I got you wrong but are you sure I am the right person to direct this question to? The features I have mentioned in post #4 will not impose significant costs except for USB-C / USB PD. All it takes is to implement these specifications in the right manner.
 
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Lux-Perpetua

Flashaholic**
19 Januar 2018
2.822
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Active cooling?
Additional Buttons?
Testing efforts?

Active cooling is cheap, see costs for Miboxer C2-4000. Additional buttons - we are talking about one more button, maybe 20 cent higher costs. Additional testing efforts are negligible and can be resolved by prototype testing of experienced BLF/TLF members, see BLF thread stated above.

So far so good in terms of my point of view. I think there’s enough room for more opinions here. ;)
 
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kirschm

Flashaholic***
13 April 2017
5.393
2.607
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To cut a long story short:

Functionality: at least like skyrc mc3000
Build quality: significantly better than skyrc mc3000
Slots: longer than skyrc mc3000

If this comes true, then skyrc mc3000 is dead
 
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Dlyfull

Hersteller
21 Juni 2019
88
50
18
Shenzhen
www.dlyfull.com
Alle meine 21700er (Lishen und Samsung) sind unprotected und maximal 71mm lang. Hier ist nach extralangen mit 75 bis 78 mm gefragt. Verwendet ihr tatsächlich in all den genannten Lampen lange (protected) Akkus? Oder gibt es auch extralange unprotected?

Google übersetzt:
All my 21700s (Lishen and Samsung) are unprotected and up to 71mm long. The demand was for extra-long ones with 75 to 78 mm. Do you actually use long (protected) batteries in all of these lamps? Or is there also extra-long unprotected?
We just get the information from our flashlight users friends, so we need to make the detailed marketing research before open a new charger.
Best regards,

Jeff
 

Dlyfull

Hersteller
21 Juni 2019
88
50
18
Shenzhen
www.dlyfull.com
Even if they would exist, why the hell should I buy them?
:)if you need them, you will buy it. You will no need to buy them if you no need for them. the most important is base on your flashlight demand.

Standard 21700 cells have more or less the same length. The protection circuit on top of the positive terminal is the part that adds length to the battery. So, if you want to use protected 21700 batteries you probably end up with batteries of 75mm and longer.
Maybe someone will ask, why should I add a long protective pcb to my battery?

4) What is the price level will you accept ?
Your answers:
20 for single bay charger
50 for double bays charger
95 for four bays charger

This looks like the ultimate BLF charger:
https://www.facebook.com/dlyfullbat...670086663528/1658225020974698/?type=3&theater
the charger you linked is our great new charger, but they only can charge the longest cell is 73mm.

Selectable termination voltage would be a selling point.

Displaying actual charging current (or better: option to skip CV charging) would be fine.
We usually do the selectable charge current, no company do the selectable termination voltage, so it is really good idea.
 
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stefle

Flashaholic*
24 Juli 2018
466
116
43
@Dlyfull
Since you are experienced with NiMH chargers, can you say something about charging with pulsing current?

This is HJK from lygte-info.dk:
Real world -dv/dt chargers uses pulsing current when charging, probably because there is less noise in the voltage measurement with the charge current off.
[...]
The reason chargers measures with current off is probably due to noise, the signal may be less, but with current turned off the noise is also reduced.
(https://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryChargingNiMH UK.html)

Is he right about the noise problem? Constant current seems to yield a better termination signal.

I'd like an acoustical alert when job is done. Unfortunately this requires additional components.

There may be a another use case for a discharge function (beyond battery testing): You have fully charged batteries you don't need anymore. To get storage charge a very slow discharge function would be sufficient.
 

light-wolff

Flashaholic***²
14 September 2011
16.351
12.425
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im Süden
Is he right about the noise problem? Constant current seems to yield a better termination signal.
Wenn man mit fließendem Strom die Zellenspannung misst, hat man die Übergangswiderstände mit drin. Die schwanken während des Ladens teils erheblich, weil sich die Zelle erwärmt und ausdehnt. Das ist gemeint mit "Noise". Deswegen misst man stromlos.
Bei Li-Ion spielt das kaum eine Rolle weil der Ladestrom gegen Ende viel geringer ist.
 
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Dlyfull

Hersteller
21 Juni 2019
88
50
18
Shenzhen
www.dlyfull.com
@Dlyfull
Since you are experienced with NiMH chargers, can you say something about charging with pulsing current?

This is HJK from lygte-info.dk:
Real world -dv/dt chargers uses pulsing current when charging, probably because there is less noise in the voltage measurement with the charge current off.
[...]
The reason chargers measures with current off is probably due to noise, the signal may be less, but with current turned off the noise is also reduced.
(https://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryChargingNiMH UK.html)

Is he right about the noise problem? Constant current seems to yield a better termination signal.
@stefle ,YES, you are right. HJK is very professional for charger and battery product, very famous at BLF.

Usually if the Ni-MH charger has the DC input only, for example DC5V or DC12V input. The charger need the inductor to reduce the voltage.
The inductor will make the noice when working. But the noise is very very light. Usually we can not hear unless the bad quality inductor.
So the Ni-mh charger will do pulse charge when total two situations: 1. big charge current ; 2 reduced voltage is bigger,

For Li-ion charger, usually do CC/CV charge, will not do pluse charging.

Best regards,

Jeff
 

matjeshering

Flashaholic*
29 Oktober 2012
898
488
63
Please not another mc3000! Keep it simple, not to simple. I would like a premium charger not a scientific charger.

1) which brand and model for flashlight will use such longer length ?
Your answers: Rofis R4

2) how many batteries in the torch usually?
Your answers: 1

3) how many charge bays do you like for this charger ? Single bays or Double bays or four bays ?
Your answers: 2

4) What is the price level will you accept ?
Your answers:
for single bay charger
for double bays charger: 50€. For excellent build quality/display/good multi QC wall charger even more (~75€)
for four bays charger

5) What is the charge current will you like ?

(100ma)
250ma
500ma
1000ma
2000ma
(3000ma)
(xxx) only in user selectable mode



6) What other function will you need ?
Multi Chemistry is nice to have, LiIon is enough
temperature monitoring
(silent active cooling nice to have)
capacity measurement
(internal resistance, 4 wire measurement nice to have)
Battery storage function (charge/discharge to 3,6V)
QC input with a good multi QC wall charger (perhaps with 2 or 3 outputs) and good cable in the package. I don't need another USB output or power bank function.
A GOOD USER MANUAL, not for nerds, not for scientists, translated by a native speaker, checked by common users in a readable font size.




Suggestions:
3-4 LiIon Charge programms: first three for standard user like me (charging batteries is a need, not a hobby) and most common batterie types(16340/18350/14500/18500/18650/21700).
1. conservative: low charge current up to ~4,0V
(2. standard: medium charge current up ~4,1V)
3. power: high current up to ~4,2v
(half charge current for battery length shorter 60mm)
4. user selectable: selectable current and termination voltage
(5.& 6.modes for NiMh and LiFePo)

The easiest way for choosing the charge current and termination voltage is a slide control. One button for current, one for voltage with indication led or selected values shown permanent in display is also ok.
I don't like 10 different functions for one button.






Thanks and best regards,

Gerald
 
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